Let us make man

[Just wondering]

I have never heard it explained like that. It does make sense. I will definitely have to give this some thought.

[linda Majors]

Originally Posted by Bro.Sam

At least one Apostolic minister taught that God was speaking to His newly created man and woman here. He was telling them to reproduce like the animals were and each child born would bear that image.

I tend to go with this view, or this interputation. Amen!

[Victorious]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider

¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

First of all, does the eternal God have a physical image? NO. Therefore, He must be speaking of the [spiritual] likeness. Some believe (including me) that the spiritual realm was created first, starting with the angels. The first human soul created was that of Christ the Son which was joined to the eternal God in a hypostatic union. It was for and through the Son that the physical universe was made.

Gen 1:27So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Again, God has no physical image. We are like the angels spiritually, we have no gender. If we are in the likeness of God, God has no gender.

If this is true then we can throw out the long standing Trinitarian belief that the Son is co-existent, co-equal, and co-eternal with the Father. If the soul of Jesus Christ was created seperately by God, then Jesus is a seperate god and not part of an eternal Triune God.

[dtsjr]

My thoughts exactly! I agree with the concept of the spiritual "world" was created before the physcial world (flesh). That just makes sense. There's no problem with the "Father", "Son", and "Holy Spirit". These three are one. But for someone to try to explain the Trinity in like doing the impossible. Co-equal, co-eternal, and co-existent? I mean, come on. There's no way that God would share His power or His Throne with anything with anyone else. By the way, I wish I could say that I'm 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th generation Pentecost, but I'm not; I'm a former Trinitarian that has been awarded True Mercy & Grace. Now, I have the previlege of being the 1st generation in my family and living for God. We're going start a new trend.

[Just wondering]

He is the Alpha and Omega
The Beginning and the End
The Son of God, the King of Kings
Lord of Lords, He's Everything
Messiah, Jehovah
The Prince of Peace is He
The Son of Man, Seed of Abraham
Second Person in the Trinity

My son was listening to this song a few years ago. He said, "This song is crazy. They say he is everything but then go on to say he is the second person in the Trinity. If he is all they say he is then what is the first person and third person in the trinity.

[dtsjr]

Originally Posted by Just wondering

He is the Alpha and Omega
The Beginning and the End
The Son of God, the King of Kings
Lord of Lords, He's Everything
Messiah, Jehovah
The Prince of Peace is He
The Son of Man, Seed of Abraham
Second Person in the Trinity

My son was listening to this song a few years ago. He said, "This song is crazy. They say he is everything but then go on to say he is the second person in the Trinity. If he is all they say he is then what is the first person and third person in the trinity.

Exactly! Well said by the young, but brilliant man! The meek, humble spirit of young children is what some full-grown, yet imature, selfish, and traditional adults need these days. My son is now 7 yrs. old. He received the HG when he was 5. He is so humble. He also is VERY sensitive to the Spirit. I believe God is going to use him one day; but more importantly He already has in a sense. My wife and I tried not to intervene too much when he first got the HG, but we didn't have to. The LORD has lead him and taught him more than we ever could. Sensitive and Humbleness.

[Just wondering]

It is amazing how much small children can grasp. I have a 2 year old grandson that just amazes me with what he understands and his desire to hear the word of God. He loves to be read to and his favorite book is the story of Noah. He also wants me to tell him about Baby Jesus. He loves to hear about how Jesus was born and that the wise men came to visit. He can tell you the gifts that the wise men brought to Jesus.

The other day he told me he wanted to talk to baby Jesus. I told him that when he prays he talks to baby Jesus.

[LartoRev]

From Genisis to Revelations there is only one God. No matter how you look at it.

[dtsjr]

Originally Posted by LartoRev

From Genisis to Revelations there is only one God. No matter how you look at it.

And His name is JESUS

[Just wondering]

Jesus, Jesus, I love calling Your name.

I never get tired of talking about Jesus. And I don't believe he ever gets tired of hearing me call him.

[Victorious]

Originally Posted by dtsjr

My thoughts exactly! I agree with the concept of the spiritual "world" was created before the physcial world (flesh). That just makes sense. There's no problem with the "Father", "Son", and "Holy Spirit". These three are one. But for someone to try to explain the Trinity in like doing the impossible. Co-equal, co-eternal, and co-existent? I mean, come on. There's no way that God would share His power or His Throne with anything with anyone else. By the way, I wish I could say that I'm 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th generation Pentecost, but I'm not; I'm a former Trinitarian that has been awarded True Mercy & Grace. Now, I have the previlege of being the 1st generation in my family and living for God. We're going start a new trend.

I'm in the same boat with you. My dad was a pastor in the Pentecostal Holiness Church when I was growing up, and I was taught the Trinitarian view. I received the truth of God's word in a somewhat unusual way, but God had his way in it and now I am 1st generation Apostolic. I just need God's help to bring my wife and children along. There is a lot of contention on this subject in my own home, but anything is possible with God.

[LartoRev]

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

How do you get three gods out of this? Hmmmmm.

[ibigsam]

The True Revelation
26: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Gen. 1:26-27

It is not as hard as it seems. The main thing we need to know is this.

Who was God? The Hebrew for God is ELOHIM.

So who was Elohim who said let us make man in our image and likeness?

We will allow the Patriarch Jacob also known as Israel to answer the question for us.

15: And he blessed Joseph, and said, Elohim, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the Elohim which fed me all my life long unto this day,
16: The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth. Gen. 48:15-16

In verse 15 the word God is used two times as Jacob blesses his Grandsons. He describes the very God (Elohim) who was Abraham and Issacs God.

In verse 16 he says THE ANGEL is his God. The Angel then is Elohim HIMSELF.

So The Angel Of Elohim is Elohim.

So when Elohim (the Angel) says let us make Man after our likeness he is addressing the Angels.

They themselves are made in his image. The image of Elohim.

Men will have a likeness after that of Angels.

Angels are referred to as MEN various times in scripture.

For example in Daniel:

15: And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.
16: And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision. Dan. 8:15-16

21: Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation. Dan. 9:21

Gabriel one of the greatest Angels is called A MAN!

Angels look like MEN. Why? Because we are made in their image.

So after Elohim said let us make man after OUR IMAGE then we read:

27: So Elohim created man in his own image, in the image of Elohim created he him; male and female created he them.

Elohim alone then makes man proving he was speaking to the Angels OUT OF COURTESY when he says "let us make man".

They dont make man he does. The verse also proves Elohim had an image and likeness. The angels and ourselves are made after it!

So bottom line:

Elohim (Angel of YHWH) is our Creator.

I humbly object my brother. I believe a person makes a mistake taking our western understanding and language and applying it wholesale to an eastern book. The meaning of angel where Jacob refers to the "angel" that redeemed him is:

mal-awk'
From an unused root meaning to despatch as a deputy; a messenger; specifically of God, that is, an angel (also a prophet, priest or teacher): - ambassador, angel, king, messenger.

So in one sense, God and all of us our angels, because we are kings, priests, ambassadors of God, and messengers, but not in the same sense as what we think of as angels. If you look at Isaiah it says:

Isa 6:2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

Seraphims there means:

saw-rawf'
From H8313; burning, that is, (figuratively) poisonous (serpent); specifically a saraph or symbolical creature (from their copper color): - fiery (serpent), seraph.

If you look later in this chapter you will find these creatures have six wings two to cover their head, two to cover their feet, and two to fly with. I haven't seen any men walking around with six wings yet. This angel doesn't even fit our normal view of angel, because our normal view of angel is a being with two wings to fly with.
Now let's look at Genesis 3:24

Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Cherubims means:

ker-oob'
Of uncertain derivation; a cherub or imaginary figure: - cherub, [plural] cherubims.

This language is even less clear as to what a cherub would be like but we do know that Satan was a cherub. And when the mercy seat was built with the cherubs and later on when Solomon built the temple they had wings on the cherubs. Ezekiel also speaks of cherubs. Now let's look in the New Testament.

1Co 4:9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.

If angels and men are the same thing, then why would Paul say that we are made a spectacle unto angels and to men. If they are the same, he should just say we are made a spectacle unto angels. Again,

Mat 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

Do you think Jesus was speaking of men here?

Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Here he says that we will be as angels, in the sense that we won't be marrying and there won't be sex. It did not say that we would be angels, but we would be as angels. Angels always appear in the Bible as men, never is there a woman angel mentioned. God and the angels are masculine. The Bible speaks of God and the church as a husband and wife. It speaks of Jesus Christ as the Bride Groom. Though God is Spirit, he is still considered in the masculine sense.

Mar 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Again is this speaking of just men? Jesus will be ashamed when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. What men have you seen that are holy?

1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

2Pe 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

2Ki 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

Do you believe all these Scriptures are just speaking of regular old men? The Bible speaks of the angels as being are servants. But a child is put under governors until he comes of age. Surely not all these are referring to men. I do believe some of the Scriptures that speaks of angels are referring to humans in the sense that they are a messenger. But there is also a supernatural being that is a little higher than us, because Jesus was made a little lower than angels that He might suffer death. Angels are not men, and men are not angels. Now I wouldn't doubt God was talking to angels when he said let us make man, but that doesn't make us angels. He did consult with angels at times though. Example in Kings where God sends a lying spirit on the mouths of 400 prophets to lie so Ahab die.

[Just wondering]

Originally Posted by Victorious

I'm in the same boat with you. My dad was a pastor in the Pentecostal Holiness Church when I was growing up, and I was taught the Trinitarian view. I received the truth of God's word in a somewhat unusual way, but God had his way in it and now I am 1st generation Apostolic. I just need God's help to bring my wife and children along. There is a lot of contention on this subject in my own home, but anything is possible with God.

I am just curious. You said your dad pastored a Pentecostal Holiness Church. But they believed in the Trinity. Was that the only difference between what they believed and what the apostolics believe?

When we first moved to an area we were looking for a church. I met a lady at Walmart that looked very holy. I ask where she went to church and she said her husband had just took a church there in that town. So we visited the church. We really liked it. Then my children went to a youth thing at the church one night and they were talking about trinity. She asked if they believed in the Trinity. They gave her a tape to listen to. We listen at it and they definitely believed in the trinity. We were shocked. But nevertheless we didn't return to the church.

[Victorious]

Originally Posted by Just wondering

I am just curious. You said your dad pastored a Pentecostal Holiness Church. But they believed in the Trinity. Was that the only difference between what they believed and what the apostolics believe?

When we first moved to an area we were looking for a church. I met a lady at Walmart that looked very holy. I ask where she went to church and she said her husband had just took a church there in that town. So we visited the church. We really liked it. Then my children went to a youth thing at the church one night and they were talking about trinity. She asked if they believed in the Trinity. They gave her a tape to listen to. We listen at it and they definitely believed in the trinity. We were shocked. But nevertheless we didn't return to the church.

As I was growing up, the Pentecostal Holiness church held the same standards as the Apostolic Oneness churches, but as I got older the denomination as a whole tended to slide down the same path as the AOG. They do believe Trinity but they also differ on the doctrine of sanctification. They view sanctification as a second definite work of grace required before baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues. First comes salvation through grace, then sanctification, then baptism with the Holy Ghost. They strongly encourage water baptism, but do not teach that it is required for salvation as far as I know.